Browsers: Netscape.Can anyone help!

started by Flaxen on Mar 4, 2004 — RSS Feed

Flaxen Flaxen
Posts: 28

This is probably a stupid question, but this is definitely weird.

I realise that a lot of you have a strong preference for Netscape, or in fact anything that isn't IE, so hopefully someone can explain what is happening and tell me how to fix it.

I have been updating and generally messing with several sites, and it seems that IE is picking up the changes when I FTP, but NS isn't. I've tried looking for an equivalent in NS to the IE setting to check for new pages each visit, but I can't find anything comparable. This is bugging me because I altered a set of pages to remove the <iframe> system since it seems to be randomly interpreted at times, with the result that the pages are now completely messed up in NS! It can't be a caching problem, since it works ok in IE.

Joe Gillespie Joe Gillespie
Posts: 528

Caching can be very confusing and IE and Mozilla work quite differently in how they handle cached files. It is controllable in Netscape/Mozilla in Preferences/Avanced/Cache. There are four options - plus a link prefetching option.

Go in there and empty the cache and restart Mozilla. As a shortcut, I sometimes append a question mark to the normal URL. That fools it into thinking it is a differnt page and reloads it afresh.

Flaxen Flaxen
Posts: 28

Thanks! Took me a while to find the cache option, didn't realise that you could double click in the structure! You can see I don't use/like NS much at all huh?

Now the site looks as it is supposed to, but I have one more question...

Why, when I view the source, does NS insist on displaying a non-existent frameset DTD and file?
This site does not and has never had a DTD of:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">

There is no suggestion of frames of any sort in any of the pages, but consistently the source shows as if it was a framed site...

Joe Gillespie Joe Gillespie
Posts: 528

It's very unlikely that Netscape will change a valid Doctype that's already there. If there is no Doctype or it's wrong, it might type to guess what is meant but I've never seen this happen and I've been using Netscape since version <=1..

Flaxen Flaxen
Posts: 28

This has got me thoroughly confused. I must be incredibly stupid but.....

The Doctype in the files is precisely the same as the one used by this forum, i.e.
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">

Now, when I validate the pages by file upload from my hardrive (well, actually from our shared drive on the server, but essentially the same) they validate, using the advanced file upload option and the 'detect automatically' for both DTD and char set.

But...once I FTP them, viewing the source in IE is fine, files show exactly as they appear in my local files, but, NS and the W3c validator can no longer see the source, when I try to validate, using the same settings (detect automatically) it can't detect the Doctype or character coding, because it, like NS are getting a frameset...It makes no sense at all!

Is it possible that error lies in the way our server is set up?

The url is http://www.whitleywebworks.co.uk if anyone wants to check the source in IE against what is happening on NS.

If anyone can help me understand  what is happening I'd be forever in your debt!

Baxter Baxter
Posts: 157

Well, it's definitely got a frameset doctype.
Was it ever in frames? Is it possible you're uploading to a different location than where the file is? Don't laugh, I've done it.

Flaxen Flaxen
Posts: 28

It did have an iframe, but if I was uploading to a different location then surely IE would see the same source? I've also checked in Opera, since I posted and it sees the true source.

I think I'm starting to pin it down to some setting on Apache with regards to NS...still confused though!

Joe Gillespie Joe Gillespie
Posts: 528

Mozilla, IE 5 and Safari all show me the same frameset. I think you are a bit muxed ip somewhere :?

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
<html><head><title>WhitleyWebWorks</title></head>
<frameset rows='100%,*' border='0' frameborder='0' framespacing='0'>
<frame src='http://www.bayleaf.homelinux.com:80/' name='mainframe' frameborder='0' noresize='noresize' scrolling='auto'>
<frame frameborder='0' scrolling='no' noresize='noresize'> </frameset>
<noframes><body> Sorry, you don't appear to have frame support.
Go here instead - <a href="http://www.bayleaf.homelinux.com:80/">WhitleyWebWorks</a> </body> </noframes> </html>


Flaxen Flaxen
Posts: 28

Actually, whilst i'm not mixed up, thats helped me to get a step closer to figuring this out. Just noticed that when I 'view source' in IE directly from the live site, it is actually showing me a file on our server, rather than the file that people outside our LAN would see. By this I mean that the notepad file that opens the source is titled: www.bayleaf.homelinux rather than the correct web address. NS opens a source document with the correct url.

This is obviously an apache setting, but I still can't work out where that frameset is coming from, since that file does not exist anywhere on our system!

Baxter Baxter
Posts: 157

How are you ftp-ing them?
If you're taking file a directly from folder a and moving it directly to folder b, and you see the full path of folder b and know it's exactly where you want and expect it to be, and if you know that file a is overwriting the previous a, then you're set.

Somebody, somewhere created that frameset page. Find it on the server and overwrite it with the new one.

Flaxen Flaxen
Posts: 28

I'm FTP'ing from a directory on our Linux server (which holds several shared drives for our LAN) onto the Apache web-server which is physically another machine. But you're making me wonder...

(One of the problems I'm having is that my husband maintains the servers, and he is currently languishing in California, 8 hours behind me, so I'm trying to muddle through this myself, so I apologise for all the silly questions!)

I'm going to log onto the web-server and use Midnight Commander, which I vaguely understand, to see what is 'actually' on the server for that site....
just hope I don't break anything

Flaxen Flaxen
Posts: 28

Please, please don't laugh, but I've now located the source  of the problem.

Tracked it down to somewhere in the redirect process. The domain name is registered through 123-reg.co.uk and forwarded to our web server.

I just realised that it was possible that 123-reg create that frameset as part of the web forwarding, because that file definitely does not reside on our server anywhere, I had been through it with a finetooth comb looking for it.

So...checked 123-reg domain management, and discovered that when my husband set up the web forwarding he had chosen 'framed web forwarding'.
I changed it to 'non-framed' and, as if by magic, the stupid source file went away.

Thanks all, for your suggestions and help. Much appreciated.

Joe Gillespie Joe Gillespie
Posts: 528

These things are sent to try us! For the past four hours, I've been wrestling with a problem where a page crashes in IE5 (Mac) and nothing else. It validates 100%. I copied and pasted every <div> from the problem page into a new one until I hit the one that was causing the crash. There was nothing wrong with it. It had a tiny GIF (an asterix) followed by a line of text. If I took the GIF out, there was no problem. If I put the GIF back in the same place - crash. If I put the GIF at the right hand end of the line, fine, but I wanted it at the left. I found that by just putting a non-breaking space in front of the GIF, the problem went away.

Thank you Microsoft for wasting four hours of my life - although I think I got off lightly!

Jdenny Jdenny
Posts: 65

One couls almost laugh!

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