Layout: I started out so hopeful ....

started by Ansoniadesign on Sep 22, 2004 — RSS Feed

Ansoniadesign Ansoniadesign
Posts: 4

I started out so hopeful.  I have always been confused by relative and absolute positioning, so when I saw the link on Zeldman's site to "Absolutely Relative" my heart soared.  I mean, just to find out I wasn't the only one confused was so encouraging. Then I went to the article.  I can't read it.  I am 45 years old, my monitor resolution is 1280x1024 so sometimes (a lot of times) things are very hard to read. "No problem," I thought, "I will use IE's increase text function. ... No luck. Is there a style switcher? No."  

I am on a corporate platform with access to only one web browser and I can't increase the font size to read this article.  Oh well, I guess this article was meant to be read by the young, the hip, and the non-Microsoft encumbered.  Such is life after 45.

Mpj Mpj
Posts: 76

Why not copy the article into a Word doc, alter the size to suit and print it?

OK, it's not the easiest way to do things but if you can only get online at work and you're tied to IE then it's a solution.

Joe Gillespie Joe Gillespie
Posts: 528

I guess this article was meant to be read by the young, the hip, and the non-Microsoft encumbered. Such is life after 45.

Er, no. The article is directed towards web designers (of any age) and I'm considerably more than 45 myself. I can't read any site, book or newspaper without my glasses.

My first question is, if you are not a web designer, why would you find this article to be of any interest?

My second question is, if you are a web designer, how can you possibly work with only one browser?

Joe Gillespie Joe Gillespie
Posts: 528

If you read the first post it clearly states "I am on a corporate platform with access to only one web browser". The fact remains that IE is the majority browser, so we must cater for it. That means trying to avoid fonts set in pixels. (The only reason the text can't be enlarged.) Use ems or percentages instead.

EDIT: Just read this further down the page!

"If a site is aimed at the widest possible general audience, it's not a good idea to fix the font size in pixels. As this particular site is aimed at 'designers' and discusses 'visual' issues, the viewing situation is a bit more predictable so I allow myself the 'luxury' of specifying the font size in pixels."

There is, however, one thing AnsoniaDesign can do. In IE go to the Tools menu and select Internet Options. On the General tab, click on the Accessibility button and tick the box marked "Ignore font sizes specified on Web pages". Now you can enlarge the text!

You can also set up a custom stylesheet from the same menu and use it to over-ride anything you don't like on the web. (An example might be to force all text to be a certain size.)

Font styles and colours can also be turned off from the same menu. Font styles could be used to allow you to set a default font and see it used on every page.

Baxter Baxter
Posts: 157

Kestrel said:
The fact remains that IE is the majority browser, so we must cater for it..

True, but I have to agree with Joe... how can anyone who calls themselves a web designer ONLY work in IE? That's just not a very good idea for anyone working on the web.

Especially since IE's market share (while still huge) is DECLINING steadily.

Suzy Suzy
Posts: 1

Hi, I just found this forum...

You CAN resize text in IE-6:

Go to TOOLS > INTERNET OPTIONS > ACCESSIBILITY, then select the “Ignore font sizes specified on Web pages” box. (You can also choose the "Ignore style sheet" box if you want to use your own style sheet.)

Then from VIEW > TEXT SIZE select a larger font size if needed and the page text should resize.

Hope that is of help!

Ansoniadesign Ansoniadesign
Posts: 4

Since what browsers I have "access to" seems to be an ssue to some who responded I will clarify.  My PC does allow for locally installed browsers and I have Firefox as an alternative.  However, within my company the only broswer everyone else has access to is IE. I primarily design web apps for our intranet -- which is viewed without exception on IE.  I also have a Mac with the usual compliment of browsers in order to check my few public designs.  But, the point of my post is that the article, and indeed this forum, is barely readable in IE to me with no EASY, quick alternative for changing the text size.

Calling into question my legitimacy as a web designer instead of the legitmate question of usability is pretty lame.  

Baxter Baxter
Posts: 157

Since I was one of those that was pretty baffled by (and vocal about) the IE-only bent, it looks like I owe you an apology. I didn't think about controlled intranet conditions.

Still, why not just fire up firefox if you've got it right there? It's a better browser anyway.

As for usability... yes, you're right. IE can't get it's act together to properly support resizing, and pixels can be dangerous. Personally, I've just gotten to where I like large body text in general. Tiny text is too hard to read.

As for the usabiility problem, Joe, why don't you do something like this:

font-size: 12px !important;
font-size: 90%;

With whatever values you want. That way, real browsers would hold the important value, and IE would take the other. A hack? Yup... but so is IE.

Anyway, Ansonia, I apologize. I should have thought about the possibility of circumstances that were not readily obvious.

Joe Gillespie Joe Gillespie
Posts: 528

But, the point of my post is that the article, and indeed this forum, is barely readable in IE to me with no EASY, quick alternative for changing the text size.

Ah, so you want something EASY. I see. How easy is it for me to produce this site every month at no cost to you or anybody else? If I wanted something EASY, I'd sit back and watch television.

Considering the effort I go to, the least you can do is open a modern, standards compliant browser!!! If you don't want to do that, then that's up to you. No problem here.

In the October issue, I'm actively supporting the Spread FireFox campaign. The sooner we all ACTIVELY do something about Microsoft's excuse for a Web browser, the better.

Putting up with IE is another EASY solution.

Ansoniadesign Ansoniadesign
Posts: 4

Apology accepted.

I hope my point is understood.  Yes, I could have opened Firefox (I don't remember if I did or not) but why force me to use another browser?  It is a point at which you risk losing my readership altogether because when the text is too small I feel alienated and turned off.  There are a lot of web design sites out there -- no one site has cornered the market on this kind of stuff -- and I will take the time to read the site (and will revisit) if I can read it without having to switch from my main browser.  (Even if I am not crazy about said 'main browser'.)

I am not even advocating one method of text sizing over another.  I read. At least I read sites I can see. I know they all have their pros and cons ... just make the text bigger than 9px  ...  I can't even read what I am typing in this reply.  We aren't all 30. Thank God.

(45 and loving it ... most of the time.)

Ansoniadesign Ansoniadesign
Posts: 4

Wow.  Mr. Forum Administrator's anger is, well, surprising to me. I would think he (why do I think it is a man) would be trying to cultivate readers, not alienate them.  And angry because I took the time to say that  text is too small for me to read on my default work platform.  

That is okay, there are many other fine web design sites out there and some have manners.  I'm outta here.  Thank you to those of you who had helpful hits on how to resize when saddled with IE. Good luck to you all.

Joe Gillespie Joe Gillespie
Posts: 528

Ah, you mistake my sarcastic wit for anger, not so. It takes quite a lot to make me angry. You've had several suggestions on how to resize the type so I don't see how the type size can really be your problem.

Checmark Checmark
Posts: 4

The only item of relavence in my question to the topic of this thread is the statement itself about "starting out hopeful". I have been sending hopefully discreet messages to those whose email addresses are public, confessing to my stupidity as a newbie here, and asking how one finds the "index" page to start a new thread. My question related to complex menus and I couldn't locate any thread where a post would make sense. No one has responded and I am hopeful I have not offended anyone on my first attempt to communicate in this forum.

Joe Gillespie Joe Gillespie
Posts: 528

To start a new thread click on Home at the top of this page. Choose an appropriate section for your topic and click on Start New Topic at the top.

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